Message posted by Richard on August 12, 2000 at 06:02:43 EST:
Magoo is correct in saying about the amount of threats involved are good and keeps the pilots on their toes for the real thing, but during the air crash of the Eagle in Green flag, he was the lead of his six ship flight which was in turn a part of 60 aircraft that launched for that sortie. The Crash last week the of the Eagle was probably some sort of catastrophic failure, as Joerg mentioned, the tail was still upright, and Magoo has also mentioned about a flat spin so i dont need to mention anything about that. As for Vipers gliding, they can glide, my fellow dutch military monitors have proof of that when they recorded a dutch viper with engine shut down over Holland, He glided for miles, and when he was talking about bailing out,and now below 10,000ft he managed to re-light his engine. You may of lost engine power, but you also have auxillery electric systems incase of engine loss, meaning you still have control down to the last moment. The Dutch pilot did it ok and he glided for quite a while, losing 20,000ft. As with double engined aircraft, the tomcat layout is the safest of all. With a gap between each engine, it has a much higher chance of surviving a castastophic engine failure than other aircraft like an Eagle or F111/Tornado, if the engine blow out is not contained, thats the other engine gone...both engines down. In the Tomcat, if its not a contained explosion, then atleast you have the added bonus of the engines being wide apart. Rich
That is a vast amount of aircraft for that small area and an accident is waiting to happen.
When your flying at speeds over 400kts, and in a single seater your situation awareness is right down when there is 60 aircraft in your vicinity.
no matter what systems you have on board and whether your in an Eagle or a Cessna, you are going to near miss something. AWACS just provides airborne warning and control and although you are listening to him, and youve got the JTIDS up and running, its still hard to know whats going on in that area if 60+ fighters are at all altitudes, all speeds and all around you.
Its why two sets of eyes are better, but that doesnt stop colliding.
I know its brilliant training and i know its the most realistic training their is, but it does get too crowded in the skies. Rachel residents will tell you that for a fact....in 1986 they had a norwegian Viper crash right into Rachel, narrowly missing a childrens play area... and what do the residents get? a tour around Nellis AFB.
It is however probably right in that having Area 51's restricted R4808N airspace so near the rendezvous of where Blue meets Red has been the cause of some collisions. Whirling around that area, and trying desperately not to nudge the R-4808N is probably frustrating and causes restrictions in pilot movement of the area, whereas everywhere else hes got freedom of movement. I know the desert Moa extends vastly but when in ACM that doesnt matter.
There will be a serious accident one day, involving many aircraft, whether it be over Vegas or not.
I am fully with the exercise operations, in making out pilots the best there is, but with 40-60 aircraft in one package playing in such a small area, its gotto happen.
There was a time in Allied Force, when pilots had to dodge cruise missiles, getting in their way of the run-ins. Just think what its like with 60 aircraft in your area, and for that matter being chased by aggressors aswell.
In Reply to: Re: green flag mid air collision posted by Magoo on August 11, 2000 at 21:45:58 EST:
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