Message posted by Tom Mahood on July 04, 2000 at 02:17:28 EST:
I've been following this Area 19 thread with some amusement, but I figure it's time I should jump in. Before I start, I do have to note that I'm the guilty party for getting this "legend of Area 19" going, due to my speculation about it being a neat place to hide something, and a few other curiosities. I should also point out that this speculation occurred before I learned a LOT more about the place. It has little interest for my any more. First, and most important, there's probably nothing there except abandoned Test Site terrain (i.e., smoldering craters). A couple of years ago, I spoke with Matt Coolidge of the Center for Land Use Interpretation (CLUI). As part of his work on "interpreting" the NTS, he went on a rather extensive tour. While up and about in Area 20 he asked his chaperone, ..uh, guide, if they could head north to Dead Horse Flat in Area 19. The guider said "sure", and they proceeded up there. They never made it all the way in, as the road got very poor, and they had only a 2wd vehicle, and it became simply impassable. To the point he got, he saw no sign of recent travel or use. What does this tell you? Well, that IS the only way in, and it doesn't seem likely they'd plop a secret base somewhere you need a 4wd to get in (Unless "they" are FAR sneakier than we give them credit for). Besides, to steal a concept from Valee, the trash trucks have to get in and out. Also, if it were secret, would the guide be so quick to agree? Now I know some of you are already muttering at the screen, "But the guide KNEW they couldn't get there, so that's why he agreed!" I can only suggest that the black helicopters are on their way, so get out now..... As an aside I'll mention that Area 20, just to the west, has decent roads and tours do make it in there. Even a schmuck like me has been to Area 20, and have passed through parts of Area 19. Not much to see. Keep in mind that the main, paved roads through the northern areas are maintained to some extent (they are NOT cleared in winter, just gated), but the dirt roads leading off the paved route aren't really maintained. What IS the place used for? The best info I have, and it's pretty good, is that nowadays it's mostly special ops training. For example, the guys might do a high altitude bail out of a plane over Tonopah at night, pop their chutes, and glide the distance into Area 19, and practice their military mischief. Maybe also some NEST stuff. There is/was a plan to install a small rocket launching facility in the southerly end of A19, near the paved road, but I don't know its status. Ok, other stuff....what about that damned powerline??? What about it? It's the terminus of the electrical "backbone" that runs the length of the NTS. I spoke with an electrician who worked on it, and he said it just runs the power up o the center of A19, the last spot they did any drilling and kerbooming. The thing has to end somewhere. Examination of the environmental docs for the NTS shows the power distribution system, and this line. The carrying capacity of the line diminishes as it heads north, as would be expected. It also states that this line is frequently down due to bad weather in winter. Unless they have a secret facility powered by 115, they're going to be in the dark a lot. And the powerline doesn't "go into the ground". It simply runs off to the remaining structures via normal overhead lines. Photos....While everyone was all agog over the Terraserver pics of Groom when they were released a few months back, I was quietly ordering the detailed images of Area 19 (Real cash money!!!), which are a bit better than what actually gets displayed when you view them online. These photos show nothing "whited out", other than the whiting out that occurs with the regular snowfall that occurs up there. These photos, taken in March of 98, I believe, show a thin, melting snow cover across the area. No vehicle tracks are visible, and had there been any, they would have been clearly seen. There are lots of the old structures typical of underground testing visible, but nothing out of the ordinary, nor signs of ANY activity. Airspace......Yes, it is under a separate Restricted area other than the bulk of the NTS (BTW, this airspace also includes Area 20). There is a good reason for why this is. If you'll recall your history of the NTS, the north end was added late to the NTS when it became obvious all testing would have to be done underground, and they wanted to test large poppers. For these big boys, the further away from Vegas, the better. When the Air Force was asked to give up that land to the NTS (it came out of the Nellis Range), they weren't too thrilled, and negotiated a separate airspace over the new, north end. This meant the area could be overflown by Nellis pilots (and regularly was) if no testing was going on. Miscellaneous.... Those circular roads shown on the map certainly look tantalizing, but reality is less interesting. Review of the recent sat photos (and 1980 era USGS aerial photos) show the roads to be next to non-existent. They appear to be an old map carryover from many years ago, perhaps when they were freshly bladed for testing. Anyone who uses USGS maps regularly has come across roads shown on the map that were all but gone on the ground. Well, that's most of why I don't think there's anything up there. I have a few other tidbits, but those involve confidences, so I ain't talkin'. Would I like to visit there myself? You betcha!! It never hurts to see for one's self. And besides, it's one hell of a pretty place up there. Will this put an end to the Area 19 questions? Hah! Look at all the life that the "Area 15 has moved" BS still has in it. But as the chief instigator of the Area 19 interest, my advice is to forget about the place and go outside for a walk. My handlers are paying me famously for advising you to do so. Tom
In Reply to: Re: Terraserver address...PLEASE READ posted by Richard C on July 01, 2000 at 20:24:36 EST:
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