Message posted by Ron on December 24, 2005 at 14:50:27 PST:
Let me go back to our flight plan and FIDOE.
Ok if you look at this plan. FIDOE LAS294052 BTY060030 . Now this is a plan going up to Groom Lake.
Look at the first waypoint on this plan. It's FIDOE so FIDOE is going to be close to KLAS. Because that’s his first waypoint. But guess what happens when ATC and tells him. Janet 210 proceed direct FIDOE or says you're cleared to FIDOE. At this point he disappears from the radar tracking websites. Because he changed modes. Now his next waypoint is LAS294052. This is a waypoint because this is a direction to a specific place in the sky. It means fly the Las Vegas VOR 294 radial outbound for 52 miles. At this point that puts you out just out by Indian Springs and Desert Rock.
Now the next waypoint is BTY06030. So when the pilot gets to LAS294052 then you go to BTY060030. This is Beatty VOR 060 radial out bound for 30 miles. At that point you are in the restricted zone. Now I will see these flights don’t fly to these VOR’s and track the radials. They just proceed to those points in the sky.
Example 52 mile out on the 294 radial from the Las Vegas VOR. Now back to our old friend FIDOE. You see if you watch those tracking websites. You see when leaving Vegas they disappear very soon from radar. They disappear way before they get to the LAS295052 waypoint. Why because the ATC has cleared them to FIDOE. Now when coming back form Groom Lake. They file a plan that looks something like this. BTY060030 LAS294052 FIDOE BLD260033 BLD. Now the first thing the pilot is going to do is cross the BTY060030 waypoint. Then he’s going to cross the LAS294052 and the he’s FIDOE. And guess what at this time he will show back up on the tracking websites. Because he changed back to mode C. And they usually get radar vectors to the approach for landing. FIDOE can not be a waypoint because its way to variable in its location and it would have to exist in two different locations. So you could not use FIDOE as a waypoint. If you did FIDOE would be within about 10 miles of KLAS. And it would be right after the LAS294052 waypoint. Now if you look at the whole picture here. What going on with these flights within 10 miles of KLAS. They disappear from our tracking sites. Why because they went FIDOE. Now when they are coming back from Groom Lake what happens just after LAS294052. They reappear on the tracking sits because they went FIDOE again. You will never see them at the BTY060030 because they have gone FIDOE way before reaching there. Now when we talk transponder modes. This is what I mean. A military transponder or IFF has 5 modes. These modes are 1, 2, 3/A, 4, and C. Mode 1 is a 2-digit octal code. Mode 2 is a 4-digit octal code. Mode 3/A is a 4-digit octal code where the pilot can put in a squawk if ATC assigns one to the aircraft. This is the same mode that civilian pilots put into their transponder. Mode 4 is an encrypted code. Mode C is the altitude in hundreds of feet. And mode 4 used to be the primary means of positively identifying a friendly aircraft. The pilot can't change Modes 1, 2, 4 in the cockpit but he can turn them off so that he looks like a normal civilian aircraft squawking just modes 3 and C, just like you can turn off your transponder in your cockpit. With that modes 1,2 and 4 are not seen on civilian radar screens. Again another thing to think about if you still think FIDOE is a waypoint. It would have to be in two different spots. You have two waypoints named the same. Well you would not what that. Because as the pilot and ATC you would what to know what FIDOE you are going to. Ok let’s say you’re still thinking it’s a waypoint. And it’s say one of these special military waypoints that change. Ok normally these waypoints change monthly and can even change location. And then with the new change it’s renamed. Not the case with our old friend FIDOE he keeps the name. So you say well they change it weekly but keep the same name. Ok you can get pilots and ATC onboard with that so now for that week everyone that needs will know where FIDOE is. But still this is not the case because all these flights are not disappearing or reappearing in exactly the same spot. The logistics nightmare to have different FIDOE waypoints for every flight would be just that a nightmare. You see these flights are treated very much like VFR. This is why they don’t file for departures from Vegas like MCCRN2 or when coming back to land they file for the FUZZY6 arrival back into KLAS.
And if you notice the altitude these Groom Lake flights fly at. 14000 feet and 15000 feet this a low cursing altitude so that must say hey these guys must not be going far. So they file a pretty simple flight plan no arrivals or departures. Now if you look at the other flights that actually go to KTNX they fly much higher 25000 feet and 26000 feet. And guess what you can see most of there track all the way there on these tracking sites. Why is that It’s because of two things. For most of flight you are still in civilian airspace. And you did not FIDOE and that is also why you did not disappear from civilian radar. Here is an example of a plan coming back from TPH TPH206010 LIDAT J92 BTY FUZZY6. You see no FIDOE and he can be tracked by civilian radar because he not in restricted airspace for very long at all. Just when he takes off from KTNX. You not see the take off because he operating a different mode on the transponder until he gets back in civilian airspace. Now in regards about TEDDY and ABBIE and DOGGIE. Well all these are inside the box. And when they are told to proceed to these places we don’t know where they are. Because they are not in civilian airspace. Some of these could be as you say navigational fixes. Or they could be acronyms for more equipment mode changes or something. Or they could be a mixture of navigational fixes and equipment mode changes. I think its more the later. DOGGIE should not be assumed it’s FIDOE. DOGGIE and TEDDY seem to come up on the control frequency when something like Keyhole is effect.
In Reply to: Re: Janet and FIDOE posted by lone wolf on December 24, 2005 at 8:49:33 PST:
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