Message posted by Richard C on October 20, 2000 at 13:14:17 EST:
Hi guys. Several things i want to discuss on this thread now: The Bat Saga.. My view is this: The same goes with seeing a Black Program. It is the case of just been so awe-inspired and starstruck that you've seen *IT* and it takes over all reactions. When going out with several people with the right equipment, you make sure that: Hearing an advanced top secret black programme roll down the runway will get anyones addrenelin pumping hard and so reactions to easy thinking before hand become extremely difficult at the time. Also, relating to the Picture on the magazine of the 'Switchblade' The same Patent drawing was featured here on DLR and other places long before the magazine got it published. Why all of a sudden has Steve Douglass publishing details of an aircraft we all knew about previously before anyway. Hes a bit late and i still havent seen one bit of evidence supporting his claims to any other programme he has claimed to have seen. I am in no way having a go at Steve Douglass....it just strikes out at me that how one man can see so much when others who spend there lives out in the Desert where most of them take off from, never see anything at all. My Views on the TR-3:- I do not believe there is a TR-3. However i may be wrong. Its just my opinion and if there was such an aircraft, why isnt it out now? We now lead back on to Steve Douglass (sorry Steve). He claims to have seen the TR-3(s) and captured something on video. So what makes him believe it was TR-3's? Wheres his Evidence. Wheres the evidence the TR-3 actually exists at all? People spend god knows how many weeks spotting in the desert of Southern Nevada and Central California to find something other than the usual fast jet, yet in New Mexico and Texas, it seems the whole classified family is flying around. Above i mentioned the rumours of aircraft that have been around for some years now. Aurora: ASTRA: The F-117 was the USAF's Best Kept secret. Theyve done it before and are still doing it with other programmes. We will not know about them properly until they are released into the white world. We can get slices of information which lead us in the general direction of what exactly may be in testing, but thats all they are....slices of information which in fact lead us no where into the real programme, it just gives us more to speculate on, and like mentioned might lead us the right way or the complete opposite direction. Going back to Propulsion: Who's to say we havent got anything like PDWE being used operationally, i just find it difficult to believe that if they are struggling with this now, then why would they be using it already. Area 51:- Area 51, some people like it because of the affiliation they believe it has with Aliens and Space Ships. Thats all for now... Regards
First my views on the Camera Vs Binoculars saga with the Swiss Bats Sighting.
Below this, will be my views on the Switchblade and other programmes, well just about everything.
I am in no way getting at anyone in this statement (disclaimer) just stating what i think.
I'm sure it will cause a stir, but if that happens, i hope it is a friendly stir. Please do not argue, if so, do it privately and if i'm wrong in any statement, then so be it. Im only normal.
I have been in many situations where i 'should' of picked up the camera instead of the binoculars.
These were times when i had low level jets literally knocking my head, and it was either the binoculars to see them coming, then the eyeball.....sometimes not even thinking about picking up the camera because of the utter AWE in seeing something that was so low, you could smell the exhaust fumes.
Binoculars are the very first thing people would reach for when up Tikaboo Peak. (Or a telephoto lense if no bins)
The Camera (if you have one) would come next. (not in the case of a telephoto)
The Fact that they had a Scanner, Recorder, Binoculars, Video/Camera etc with them, it is a bit strange that ONE of them never caught anything which gives evidence.
1. One or Two Looks in the Binoculars to try and identify target aircraft.
2. Another videos it at the same time.
3. Another Takes Stills of the target aircraft.
However like mentioned above, its not always possible because the situation you become to be in.
Heres my views:
And
Why all of a sudden has Steve Douglass' images of the Switchblade become Forward Swept Wing instead of Backward Swept wing. After all he does claim to have seen the thing, and FSW is extremely more different in configuration than the standard Variable Geometry Wing.
So his claims are now False, EVEN though it is still Variable Geometry.
In amongst the black community we knew about this for a long time.... with some of us having information which still cannot be shared for certain reasons (Do not come back onto me after reading that, i dont want any silly arguments and emails or threads on the forum about confidentiality).
Don't forget, this is not just the only programme in existance at the area. There are a few more others undergoing test and evaluation at the site and various other areas.
The Donuts are the same problem, my article on this site proves that normal jet aircraft (including airliners) can make the same trail.
We have no Proof that Steve saw a hypersonic black programme going over him that day now. The only proof he had was his photographs of the trail, which have now fallen through due to the photos i recently took and of which are on my article.
I'm not saying he did not see anything black, he may of done, but so far, what i have seen of his publications, there is not a bit of evidence supporting it anymore.
All of a sudden Texas and New Mexico seems the place to be.
The Story of a TR-3 lasing targets for an F-117 during the gulf War in 1991. Why? why would a top secret platform designated TR(Tactical Recconaissance) be designating a target for another aircraft which ALREADY has a laser designator? Its a useless profile for the mission and a waste of money. I just do not see how another classified programme would be designating a target for another (then) semi-secret aircraft which already has the same capability. Why TR-3? Do you see or hear about a TR-1A designating targets for aircraft? The answer is No. Tactical Recce aircraft lasing targets for a dedicated striker is unimagineable. The only buddy buddy lasing that took place in the Gulf War was for aircraft which never had one fitted (Groups of Strikers with one dedicated Laser aircraft leading).
Again, he and others monitored a TR-3 taking part in Roving Sands. Heres my opinion on this:
Why would the USAF participate an extremely top secret aircraft in a Multi-National Exercise over public and military land (notice i said multi-national). Surely the USAF/Govn would not participate in an exercise where multi-national forces can easily view the aircraft! Suddenly, an aircraft that no one has seen (except the Interceptors) is now taking part in an exercise over New Mexico where everyone can see it (except the ranges). Considering a Great deal of that Exercise takes place around Roswell and other populated areas, i doubt very much a secret aircraft that has been rumoured to be in service for quite some years now would be used.
Of Course we always have the disguise of Night Time. But alas, no, apparently these highly classified programmes can now be seen in daytime approaching Cannon AFB (Switchblade) and other various airfields, in plain sight of the public, yet still no sign of them in Nevada, or anywhere near the likely airfields they took off from in the first place.
So what do we do now? hang around more public airfields like Cannon to catch a glimpse of the new programmes? I do not think so. However yes, other airfields are used for trials of these aircraft. but not at daytime and not very often at all.
We now have two main programmes. The Aurora and TR3.
I am sticking with what i have heard come from the horses mouth.
Chairman of the Lockheed Martin Skunkworks...." Was'nt the Aurora a codename for the Northrop B-2A Programme when it was in its ATB origins?"
I really would love to see a hypersonic aircraft of what we all thought/think was Aurora at some time. However look at it this way first:
NASA/USAF are having an extremely difficult time developing the right Hypersonic powerplant to propell aircraft of the future. IF they are having diffulty now (HyperX) then how have we suddenly got an hypersonic aircraft already in operational service (what believe is the Aurora) that has been around now for what, 10-12 years?
10 to 12 years and STILL nothing revealed. And STILL the development of such powerplants are still very difficult, Take the Pulse Detonation Wave Engine. There is evidence of this powerplant being developed on this very website. Even a design concept of the engine is pictured, so they are developing something similar or the same, but i do not believe it has been used in operational sorties yet.
If the USAF cant even fund the SR-71 back into service, im sure as hell they cannot fund a classified programme to fly operationally for several years without being noticed.
Yes, we have Black Budgets, but these are for RD&E and the facilities of which they are based at.
My Article on the Boscombe Down incident...
ASTRA (Advanced Stealth Technology Recconaissance Aircraft) Atleast we have a designation and meaning of the word.
Whats AURORA stand for? But then they dont really have to mean anything do they.
ASTRA i believe may be in development, however again, i am not NOT sure this is the designation, it may again be a ploy to discourage people away from the real aircraft.designation. Its been done before and we all know Prototypes have a completely different designation, just like their profile and configuration (take the YF-22 and F-22 for example)
We WILL NOT and DO NOT know anything about anything that goes on at Area 51 and other facilities.
We see now and then leaked documents, but whos to say they are not real or are? We dont know. The only people who do know are the people who are actually developing the programmes (of which a few will be reading this).
Most of the workers at Area 51 do not know whats being tested at the base, so why should we.
It is a guessing game, pure speculation as to what is going on and forever will be aslong as we have the words 'Classified' and 'Black Programme'.
I have lots of information, from various sources, and from my own research of various programmes and various claims of information which i cannot discuss on this site or anywhere else (I'm am in no way bragging). So does a few others here....a few reading this right now will know what im saying and will agree.
BUT, whos to say we are in the know...we or them could have completely wrong information (disinformation) on the programmes at hand, its happened lots of times before.
We are in the year 2000 and we still havent found an economical way of travelling in space. They are looking at various engines (Aerospike) but are still a very long way off from proper space travel. The same goes with advanced engines in gravity. It is just so expensive to research and develop these engines to have us cruising high above the land at hypersonic speeds. This is why several programmes have been cancelled.
I do not think that the Black Budget that is issued will allow for the RD&E of engines involved in the hypersonic race, so if the engines are not being developed yet, then why would they already be in operational status with advanced aircraft. (Most aircraft are built around the engines).
Some people, like myself and a small majority ( i say small, because theres a heck of alot of people who believe the above) believe it is an Advanced Aircraft / Systems Development/Testing Facility.
My Belief like many others on this forum that are in touch with the operations is that Groom Lake is the above statement, an Aircraft testing facility. Nothing sinister about it at all.
There are no aliens, the same goes with ridiculous stories about Helendale RCS and Dulce, NM.
Undergound Facility:
We have gone over this many times before.
There is no substantial evidence of a large underground development facility below Area 51.
Why would they have this? I do not see that enough workers are inside the facility for this underground complex. The only underground complex i think is at Groom lake is what i have gone over before, a bunker of some kind. Thats all. (like other peoples views)
Richard C
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