Message posted by Richard on March 17, 2002 at 17:19:31 PST:
Hi folks, I was not actually having a go at Andreas, i was merely pointing out the fact that so far, in all these years, we still havent come up with anything significant. How many people go to the Groom area each year, how many people come away with something on camera? 99.9% come home bemused and puzzled that they never saw anything. The other 0.1% come back with images so bad in quality we cannot distinguish a black programme from a standard aircraft flying over the ranges. Why havent the many other people monitoring and watching Roving Sands in New Mexico seen anything, and why has only this particular person apparently seen 'so' many programmes flying around New Mexico, and yet people in Nevada cant even notice them taking off or landing or testing in the local vicinity while spending many days on top a mountain with a good vantage point. Theres one point im getting at here, i dont mean to be 'harsh' its just the way i write i guess, but, the point i am getting at is: But alas, the poor people up on top of Tikaboo, who had been previously camping and staying around the area for a few days, saw nothing take off or land, yet in NM we have them flying around in the exercises and landing at a very busy Cannon AFB. Like i have said before, i am in no way having a 'go' at any specific person on this discussion forum, i have no right to do that, and i have no authority to have a go at anyone anyway. I just find it strange how after all these years we still havent seen any photographic evidence yet, except but a few very low quality snaps of aircraft we see can be 'just about' anything! That black and white picture of the 'quiet boom' aircraft still looks very much like a QF-106 or F-106 to me, albeit with a slightly longer rear tail/engine nozzle. As i am not frequent in the desert, i certainly have no right in telling people what to do, or what to capture on film, but surely, just surely there must be someone out there with some decent snaps of 'one or more' of these programmes? No flaming here on anyone, so please, no flaming back, just good discussions on what we might or have seen, perhaps with some specifications that Magoo has asked for... as these would come in handy for people wanting to research further. Rich
Some people come back of photos of weird lights streaming from an 'unknown' aircraft whizzing over the ranges, saying they are aliens when infact they are flares being released during ACM.
An example: Here in the UK i had an email from a UFO spotter who said an alien craft was spotted chasing a Tornado F3 over Lincolnshire, it was glowing and kept the same distance from the tornado and making a buzzing noise"
When, in the magazines afterwards, it was announced that a Tornado F3 was testing a new Infra-Red Missile decoy, towed behind the plane to distract IIR missiles.
Im not having a go at anyone.. I too, wish that one day i will see 'that' secret special aircraft and get a photo.
It also amazes me, like i have said in the past on other groups/sites, that a particular Mil-Air monitor/Aviation journalist seems to be seeing an aweful lot of black programmes, much more so than anyone else in the entire USA, and most have been operating in a highly publicised Exercise (Roving Sands)in NM, and in other places which are active airforce bases with high populated areas, some flying at daytime.
I can understand people hearing or seeing these programmes visiting some particular airfields at night, but, he seems to have seen 'a fair bit' and so far, no proper photographical evidence, and he states in one of his articles he takes his camera everywhere with him.
I remember the 'swiss bat' was with him (i think) when they spotted a programme in Roving Sands, thats twice the bat has seen something, but twice we havent seen no apparent conclusion to what he saw or evidence.
Im not in anyway saying he/they never saw anything, perhaps they did, perhaps it was an awesome sight, but how do we know? Theres no proof.
We have seen a video of two triangles flying about, such bad quality we see nothing more than just blobs.
We have the bat, and his colleagues watching a large black project rumbling down the runway of Groom and taking off in full reheat(afterburner) yet, with the few of them on that mountain top, not one even thought about photographing that aircraft, but they did get a radio transcript which told us nothing whatsoever that this was indeed a black programme.
Being a Mil-Air monitor myself, i hear these things daily, Gary also does the same.
The fact that 'fastmover' was mentioned might be totally unrelated to that plane they saw.
Being near Military airfields you will monitor the ATC saying the words 'fastmover' throughout the day. Anything faster flying than 350kts or so at low level is classed as a fast mover on the radar scope. Anything of the class of any fast jet about to take off, can also be classed as "we have a fast mover about to take off from runway ##"
Then we have in the transcript... 'the wind calm'.
I hear my local airfield say this almost daily, nothing special about that, some people say the ATC controllers do not say that, they state the wind direction first and then speed in knots.
Yes, when you have a wind..they do!... when you dont, its 'Wind is calm' or 'wind calm'... like i monitor almost daily or whatever else the Controller wishes to say.
Why spend days up a mountain watching the runways and hangers of 'the' secret base we know as Groom Lake when it seems all you have to do to get 'many' sightings is to watch a fully publicised joint exercise during the day time over a completely different state, and see what you have been looking for , for many years flying in full view.
We have decent pics of the base, but we have no decent pics of anything else. I know its hard to view some days because of the haze problem, but then, these aircraft also fly around different ranges, and over the pacific, and everywhere else it seems!!
In Reply to: Re: New page with current Black Projects at Groom posted by Paul Reinman on March 17, 2002 at 7:20:46 PST:
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