Message posted by Ron on December 25, 2005 at 16:44:17 PST:

You make some really good points here.
And I would not rule out that it is indeed possible that LAS294052 BTY060030 could very will be Pyramid and Planet.
One thing that makes me think that Pyramid is at BTY060030. Is there is a small airstrip right about in this location of BTY060030.
It is the yucca airstrip. Also sometimes you will hear the ATC at Groom Lake say something like. Sting52 report when receiving Pyramid. The wording of this phrase to me should tell you that if you are to report when receiving Pyramid. Pyramid must have some beacon or radio transmitter to home in on. If you look closely someone on this website has hard radio singles from the location near BTY060030. And have stated that a Morse code id has been hard that could very will be Pyramid. So think you are in indeed correct that Pyramid is a navigational fix located deep in R4808 and is very near or at BTY060030.

I still am not sure you understanding what I’m fully saying about FIDOE. I’ve been try to tell you in my posts that why FIDOE can not be a navigational fix.
This is obvious from the flight plans they file. And when you hear ATC tell them you are clear to FIDOE or clear direct FIDOE. Notice that you will never hear ATC say something like Janet 202 report when receiving FIDOE. This is because they cannot receive FIDOE it is not a radio fix. FIDOE to be a intersection would have to me in two different spots. One FIDOE would be near KLAS and the other FIDOE would be up by Indian Springs. And there is no way you would want two fixes in two different spots with the same name. FIDOE is put in the plan to make people on the outside think it must be some waypoint….but it’s not what it really is a mode change. I know it should be clear to you that FIDOE is in two spots. Because you can see in there flight plans where FIDOE is filed. And you can look at where ATC tells them to FIDOE…if there going up there its right after take off. If there coming back it’s right around Indian Springs. But I don’t you will hardly hear ATC tell them cleared to FIDOE on the way back to KLAS. This is because the pilots know they have to change mode back to civilian mode to land at LAS. So they show up to civilian radar. This is so LAS controllers can see them on there radar screens and so they can vector them around to land. So anyone one that knows about navigation would know the last thing you would want is two waypoints in different spots using the same name. This would only spell disaster for everyone.

Now LAS295052 and BTY060030 are hard fixes and there positions never change. So you could have names for these like PLANET or Pyramid or whatever. BTY060030 you could diffidently name this position anything you want. Because the only people that are going to be able to get there. Are only people that have clearance to fly in the area. That would be DOD, DOE, EG&G and all there buddies that need to go up there. And so being in non public airspace you can call these fixes anything you want. And on last point on this and its back to FIDOE again. It should be that very evident to you or anyone that can listen to ATC. And even get these Janet flight plans. You can clearly see FIDOE is happing outside of the box (the box is the restricted airspace) and is in civilian airspace. And you will see and hear FIDOE is happing in two spots so it cannot be a navigational fix. I hope I’m making this FIDOE thing clear I know it must be very confusing. But if you have a lot of experience and know how flight plans are filed and how ATC traffic works and all that. You will see that FIDEO can’t be a fix. But it is filed in the plans to look like one and ATC go’s along with it and the FAA allows this also. So in doing so it allows them to use the term FIDEO and file it to make people thinks it’s a navigational fix. And the reason for this is it would make people think. Oh FIDOE where is this place. And people will look and look for it. And you know what you will never find it. Because there is no FIDOE fix. It filed and talked about like it is a fix. To throw off people trying to follow them. I’m sure they get a real kick out of people thinking FIDOE is a fix and spend there time looking for it. Because that’s what they want they want to shift peoples minds into thinking there must be a FIDOE fix out there somewhere. And it will get the person looking for the fix that is not there. And it will take these peoples thoughts and time away from really following them.

In Reply to: Re: Janet and FIDOE posted by lone wolf on December 25, 2005 at 13:04:10 PST:

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