Message posted by Ron on December 24, 2005 at 18:19:55 PST:
What I'm saying is...
FIDOE is not in restricted airspace that’s what I’ve been meaning to say all along. This is evident from there flight plans they file and what ATC is telling them to do.
So just after leaving Vegas they FIDOE they are going to FIDOE very early in the flight. Because it is there first waypoint on there plan.
LAS294052 is there next waypoint and it is where you say it’s at is. You are very close to it when you say its near DRA. When you are at LAS294052 you are still in civilian airspace. This LAS294052 puts you very close to the box. Now when you are coming back you arrive at or near LAS294052 and as I said that is in civilian airspace. Ok and that means you need to switch over to mode C or as I was saying FIDOE back to mode C. This is why you see on there plans coming back you will see it like this LAS294052 FIDOE then what ever they want. And in so when they FIDOE they will show up just east of KINS or about that spot. Because this is where they FIDOEed back to mode C. Please notice on there flights coming back where in the there flight plan FIDOE is located. You will see it always comes after LAS294052. This is because the civilian radar and LAS needs to see them on there screens so they can vector them in for landing and for traffic. Yes on many flights coming back they don’t go to BLD. They have a very high preference for landing and departing runway 19R at KLAS. This is because there terminal sits just west of 19R it’s a very discreet for them just to turn off the runway and there pretty much at there terminal. Now if they land on 25R or something they have a much longer taxi time and it makes them more visible to onlookers. Also sometimes if they get radar vectors to land on one of the 25’s they pretty much fly out to the BLD VOR. Because at the BLD VOR making a turn to the north for just a few minutes and then a final turn west puts you on a final approach course for the 25’s. Now I’ve seen them make almost a complete circle around KLAS. This is because of traffic congestion the controller could not clear them straight in on 19R. So he put him in the traffic flow with the other commercial traffic. Then when the controller gets everyone spaced out and he clears the Janet via vectors back around to 19R. You see they like 19R because of what I said above. And ATC knows this to so they are always going to try there hardest to let these flights use 19R. And remember if FIDOE is a fix. It would be a two fixes in two different spots and have the same name. Now this would only make mass confusion for the ATC and the Janet people. If that was the case how would you as a controller know what FIDOE you just cleared him to. Also at all these points where FIDOE is happing it never in the exactly the same spot. Its always near a certain area either by KLAS airport or by KINS. So as a pilot you would be like ok he cleared us to FIDOE. Does he mean the one by KLAS or the one out here by KINS. So as you can see this would turn into a logistics nightmare to get everyone on board with this. By that I mean all your pilots and the KLAS ATC guys the Nellis ATC people. And this to have this FIDOE fix change with every Janet flight you can see it would be almost impossible to logistically get this information to the people that need to know these locations changes that fast. You see the LAS Departure ATC is clearing them to FIDOE. So they FIDOE very close to KLAS. That is on departure climb out. Coming from Groom Lake you see they need to get to LAS294052 first. Because this waypoint puts them just outside the box and back into civilian airspace. Then they must change to mode C for civilian radar. Hence the FIDOE again in the plan. Now the reason why they FIDOE is so LAS Approach radar can see them to vector them in the pattern to land. And why how come they can FIDEO right after takeoff from KLAS? Basically this is because Vegas ATC can see on there radar screens no traffic conflicts in the Janet planes path with any civilian traffic on there screens. So they just clear them FIDOE. And if you think about it they take off and make a turn to north out of LAS. So it takes only a matter of minutes to reach Nellis approach airspace. Now since they FIDOEed in LAS approach airspace. When they get to Nellis approach airspace the Nellis ATC will see them because they use military radar. If they did not get cleared to FIDOE with LAS departure then Nellis would clear them to FIDOE. Nellis radar can see civilian mode and all the military modes so they see civilian aircraft or mode C. So you see they are not really off of radar at all when FIDOEed to another mode other than mode C. Nellis knows where they are and can still see them. If there is a traffic problem they will give course changes to either the Janet plane or the civilian aircraft. So what this boils down to is FIDOE is not in the restricted airspace at all. And it can’t be a navigational fix.
In Reply to: Re: Janet and FIDOE posted by lone wolf on December 24, 2005 at 16:17:37 PST:
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